What is your stance on election and redemption and/or reprobation ?

translapsarian, as Kerry would call it. I'm kinda in between both sides.

Translapsarian leaning Supra, but not completely.

Kerry's Avy reminds me of Carlton from Fresh Prince of Belair

i've had this discussion before but want to get clarification. God is omniscient, thus He foreknew about the fall of man. He knew adam and eve would sin, but He allowed for it to happen, in order for Him to get the glory from its implications? God did not create sin but He created the atmosphere in which it would come to pass? is sin a byproduct of evil or is it a byproduct of disobedience, both?

Romans 5

side note: did the Law make sin increase as was stated in Romans 5:20, 21? why didn't sin decrease?

Live and Direct from Philly !

from gotquestions.org

Quote:

Infralapsarianism puts God’s decrees in the following order: (1) God decreed the creation of mankind, (2) God decreed mankind would be allowed to fall into sin through its own self-determination, (3) God decreed to save some of the fallen, and (4) God decreed to provide Jesus Christ as the Redeemer. Infralapsarianism focuses on God allowing the fall and providing salvation. Sublapsarianism is very similar to infralapsarianism, putting God’s decrees in the following order: (1) God decreed to create human beings, (2) God decreed to permit the fall, (3) God decreed to provide salvation sufficient to all, (4) God decreed to choose some to receive this salvation. The only difference between infralapsarianism and sublapsarianism is whether God decreed to provide salvation through Jesus Christ and then decreed to choose some to be saved, or vice-versa. Supralapsarianism puts God’s decrees in the following order: (1) God decreed the election of some and the eternal condemnation of others, (2) God decreed to create those elected and eternally condemned, (3) God decreed to permit the fall, and (4) God decreed to provide salvation for the elect through Jesus Christ. Supralapsarianism focuses on God ordaining the fall, creating certain people for the sole purpose of being condemned, and then providing salvation for only those whom He had elected.

_________________
“God had one Son without sin, but not a single child without the rod”

"You cannot make a sinner into a saint by killing him. He who does not live as a saint here will never live as a saint hereafter."

~CH Spurgeon

Humans put things in "order", God doesn't have to. Shouldn't there be an option for God decreeing everything at an instantaneous moment in time? The way we think, we can't grasp that mentally, but that doesn't mean it can't happen that way.

wouldn't putting things in order by "ordo salutis" ?

ummmm.. based on the descriptions above.. i would probably run with SUPRA laps... lemme get my runnin shoes.

Supra.

We have a rather entertainingly informative discussion on the Eternal Order of Decree on the Gathering talkshow (Election part 2).

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lj.