What's Good brethren!

Question about the interpretation of scriptures concerning speaking things into existence.

I hear ministers say often - "You've got to speak those things that are not as though they were"

Truth... these scriptures are find in the bible, but are Christians suppose to speak "things into existence". This is something I struggle with since I am moving out of charismatic belief into a reformed mindset

... Is there no happy medium. Is it all reformed belief concerning these scriptures.

Pondering these things.... I need to do some prayer and research. But I must admit, sometimes my brain hurts from all this thinking.

I yall

positive thought/positive confession/etc didn't start with Ken Hagin the granddaddy of the WOF movement.
It actually started with Phineas Quimby the new age metaphysicist.
$0.02

Google for Phineas Quimby.

Thanks for posting Seth

My question is: Is there no truth in it?

Matthew 17:20
He said to them, "Because of your unbelief. For most assuredly I tell you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will tell this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you

Luke 17:6
The Lord said, "If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you would tell this sycamore tree, 'Be uprooted, and be planted in the sea,' and it would obey you.

Now, I have seen a lot of harm done by Word of Faith movement teachers, but I'm wondering, is there no validity to what they say or is there some validity that they have taken out of context?

What I would like to know is what exactly is the interpretation of these types of scriptures?

How does the believer practice and obey these scriptures without being heretical in Christian faith?

Learning doctrine has me my head.....

Also

This Phineas Quimby character.....

Even though he was a meta....whatever, does that mean that all practices of the charismatic church now are heretical.

I would like to know if God is truly not in ANY of it (healings, power in the tongue, etc)? And if I were to believe that God was not in any of it~ would that be saying "God is incapable of doing a certain thing". Would that be putting Him in box?

Is there no fellowship between charismatic and reformed theology like there is no fellowship between light and darkness?

Talk to me~

I wrote something on this very topic a while back. Let me dig it up and I'll post it here. It will deal with the unscriptural basis of believers speaking anything into existence.

I wrote this back in August of 2006 for my email group. Hope this helps some.

"Speaking Those Things"

Can we "speak things into existence"? Short answer, no. We don't have that power to do so. Some will say, "But the Bible says that we are to speak those things which be not as though they were." Is that true? What does the Bible say about that and where can we find it?

Here is the Scripture that many use as a "proof text", which is a Scripture a person will use to support his or her claim. We must make sure that we don't use the Bible to merely support our understanding, but that we let the Word of God mold and shape our understanding.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, [even] God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Anytime we see the words "It is written", we need to find out where "it is written." This particular "it is written" comes from Genesis 17:5. It is essential to know this in order to understand the context of this verse. So, let's look at it.

Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Notice in Genesis 17:5, God says "I have made thee", not "I will make thee." But what's interesting is at the time God was speaking this to Abraham, he had no children. Neither Ishmael nor Isaac existed at this time. God states this as if it is an accomplished fact. He can do that. Why? Because God can cause those things that are not to be. Just like He did when He created the world. Before God created it, it didn't exist. That is power that only God has. Man can't create a thing. He can only defile them.

When God says in Romans 8:30 that "them He also glorified", the same principle is involved. Even though none of us sinners, saved or not, have been glorified as of yet. Yet God speaks as if it is already accomplished. Again, He alone can do that for He alone has all power and might.

Abraham placed his faith in a God that could do great things. The first is found where it says that God "quickeneth the dead", meaning God raises those who are dead and brings them back to life. Then it says that God, not man, calls those things that are not as though they were. If we have the power to "speak those things", shouldn't we also be able to go to the cemetery and start raising the dead? I have never seen that happen. It only takes the faith the size of a mustard seed to move a mountain, yet we need super amounts of faith to get a new job? New car? New house?

Faith is not a force that we tap into. Faith is believing that God IS. Faith is believing that no matter what God does or does not do, that He did it or did not do that thing, by His righteous judgment alone. Faith is believing that God CAN, and that He WILL, "if" He sees fit to do so. Faith is not putting the power in our hands to effectuate change. Faith is believing in God who has all power. The Bible tells us in Matt. 6, to "take no thought" about the things we need. God knows all that and He will ALWAYS supply us with what we need. We need to take our focus off ourselves and place it on Him and others. That's why God wants us to "take no thought". It happens all the time in the church. We are so caught up with our "stuff" that we can't possibly help others.

We've got to do as Paul said and read our Word to show ourselves approved, so that when we stand before God, we will have no reason to be ashamed. They also brought up a Scripture that I've been troubled with as well. This Scripture is found in Job 22:2

Job 22:28 Thou shalt also decree a thing, and it shall be established unto thee: and the light shall shine upon thy ways.

This is another proof text that many use to "prove" that we can decree things and speak them into existence. What's interesting to remember about a kingdom, of which we belong to, is that only the king can decree anything, yet we see here that it appears we can. Here's the problem with this verse that if so often taken out of context. When this verse is left in the context, we'll see that this is not God speaking at all. Let's go back to the beginning of this chapter.

Job 22:1 Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,

From this point, until the end of the chapter, the speaker is Eliphaz the Temanite. Temanites were a pagan people who were descendants of Ishmael, the father of all Muslims. Of course, at this time, there was no religion called Islam, but these would have been the people who would later become Muslims. What's even more interesting is found in Job 42:7.

Job 42:7 And it was [so], that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me [the thing that is] right, as my servant Job [hath].

God's wrath was against Eliphaz and Job's other two friends, because they spoke things that God did not say. How could they speak which was right about God when they did not know the God of Israel personally? They were pagan workers of iniquity that refused to acknowledge the God of Israel. In the next verse, God told them to take seven bullocks and seven rams and prepare an offering unto the Lord, and that Job would pray for them. Though God did not accept offerings from pagans, He would accept it for Job. God spared them from His wrath, but only because of Job.

After chastening these pagans for speaking to Job lies, is it a wonder that the very next chapter in the Bible is Psalms 1, where it says "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly"?

People of God, I beseech you that you read your Bibles. Don't just skim over familiar passages, but familiarize yourself with the whole of Scripture. We are all to know God's word inside and out. Jesus set the example by studying the Old Testament as a boy and then teaching the old men in the temple. Am I saying that people who teach this are not sincere? No, I am not saying that at all. Some are not sincere, though. But, we can be completely sincere, and still be sincerely wrong.

Maybe you think I am wrong. Maybe you think I should not "criticize" another viewpoint, but God has commissioned as all to "earnestly contend for the faith" (Jude). I'm not critcizing for the sake of criticism, but so that we can see the error of our ways, and repent and ask the Lord for forgiveness for assuming we can do things He has not explicitly told us we can.

Again, please don't judge what I have said by your preference, feelings or emotions. Judge my words by His Word. We need to break away from just swallowing what other men teach us, and cling to every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

I love you all very much. That is why I do what I do. I pray that you all can see the pure intentions of my words.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

What's Good brethren!

Thanks Expo

I appreciate this article.

I believe it will help me in my studies.... Thanks again

Ok

After reading this article and giving it my full attention

I found it very very helpful... One time for clearing up the clouds of confusion...